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Discussion on Bilvamangala Thakura's renunciation
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Prabhu: I want to ask a question about guests that was asked of me before. The story of Bilvamangala Thakura, Bilvamangala follows that brahmani to her house and then her husband receives him as guest and he, as an atithi, he is worshipped as good as God and then he says, "I want your wife." And the brahmana calls his wife, and because it's his instruction, she agrees. Can you explain that?
HH BVPS Maharaja: The person who asked you the question, what's his purpose?
Prabhu: He wanted to understand, he was a respected member of the GBC.
HH BVPS Maharaja: But I mean what would be the angle on it?
Prabhu: The reason was, people ask him, so that's why he was interested, well, how...
HH BVPS Maharaja: No, but I am saying.. Because there is many angles you can look at it from. I mean, the general principle is that the guest then is taken care of and all their desires are fulfilled. So taking that principle, you could look at it in that way. But the point is is, atithi is a very specific definition, that it's a qualified brahmana who comes unasked and stays one night. That's atithi. All you're obliged to is one night, though if a host keeps an atithi for 3 nights, then each night his benefits increase. But he is only obliged really to take care of him one night. That's an atithi. So just anybody that just rolls in is not an atithi. They may be kind of dealt with in that category, but they are like a subcategory.
So therefore here, Bilvamangala is a very qualified brahmana. Now, one may say, well he is attached to prostitute, this that, this that. But the point is is there is more beyond morality that creates the individual. Because in the material world you are dealing with the senses, you are dealing with many things, and it says that even a person of great intelligence can be distracted if the sense goes in that direction. So that element is there, you have to see what is their knowledge, what can they do, what is their actual consistent practice, like that.
So you can see, he was quite a qualified person. Then, he has come, and then you have that element of taking care of the guest, so it stays within there. And the detail then happens to be his wife. Then, you look at it from the wife's side, whatever it is the husband says then if she follows, she gets no reaction, he gets the reaction, so for the wife, because it's there then it's duty, so if she is fulfilling the husband's wish, so therefore she retains her chastity. Now, whether there will be a reaction for that on the husband's part, that's another question. Whether that would be considered an appropriate and an important thing for offering to the guest or not. But it must have been a situation where they felt it was appropriate. Because if it was someone else, they might have said no.
So there is many many angles to analyze, that's why I was asking what's their purpose that they are asking? What is the doubt that came up? What is the angle that it's looked from?
Prabhu: I feel that I have the answer as you speak. Is that the proper response in the Vedic culture that someone who comes as atithi that you are ready to offer them anything including your own wife?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Basically the principle is there, but it wouldn't come up. We only hear of this one example of it. So therefore it must have been seen that the person, the qualification and everything about it was something that the host didn't mind. You know, you hear things like this about giving up their all wealth, their this or that, so many other things you hear of, so this is the only one where you hear of this, I don't know of any other story where this was there. I mean, there was that one disciple of Ramanuja and a local vaishya, but that was asking, and they would ignore him, because they had no obligation. But in this case there must have been a consideration in seeing the situation that they decided like that, because you are dealing here with a brahmana also who knows the scriptures and him looking at the situation, who he is dealing with, what's the mood and all that. The nature of his wife and so many different things. And he must have felt confident that nothing would go wrong in that. If he felt that it would make the wife unchaste or this or that, then I'm sure that he would have discussed it in a slightly different way.
So it's just there in the story, it's a side element, it's not something there to gain from, this is what devotees have added to their life. When you talk about hosting then kings like Sibi and Rantideva, these are the examples of the extent that someone is going to go to for pleasing the guest, like that, or someone who has come there with a desire. These are more, that's not taking..
There what's pointed out, the thread of that story is the Bilvamangala Thakura's, just his progress and his spiritual development and his focus on attainig the Supreme, that he had focus. But it was misdirected. And you only get that focus from proper training, you don't have that focus without some kind of background and some good karma. But then by the grace of the prostitute, it changed. In other words, by the Dharma-shastra, it says, good advice can be taken from anyone. So even from a prostitute he can take good advice.
So she said, "If you had that focus..." Because she has men coming to her all the time, and they are just sensually attracted, attached, and so therefore they come to the prostitute to fulfill that need. But they don't have any specific focus on her, it's just... it's business, you know. So someone who has such focus that they have so much attachment for her, and for the prostitute it's business, so it's like why would you be so attached? You are too focused, you have too much determination, it's over the... Just like it mentioned here, you bring your dress, speech and thoughts in line, in consistency. She says, "What I am and the reason people come to me, what you are doing is inconsistent with that. You have, how you are behaving and focusing is consistent with a sadhu who is focused on the Supreme Lord, they would do anything to get their sadhya." So she was saying, "Therefore you should now take your focus, your dharana and put the Lord there as your meditation rather than me." And so then, because he is intelligent, just because she said that, it created such a revolution in his heart, means he is a very qualified person. Otherwise, someone else would say," Aaah, no, you are just so nice, so beautiful..." and then, ok, doesn't matter, they are getting their money, so what do they care, the guy is so stupid, it's a waste of time, but, you know, she is not gonna complain. But he moved on. So she doesn't feel, "Oh, I lost a customer." She feels that this person is now rightly situated.
And so then from that there is still that slight little attraction in the heart, because he may have given up this particular prostitute, focused on the Lord, but the principle of womenhood still has some attraction for him. So then by this then we see that it's there and then because the opportunity is given, this is another point that's there. They could have also possibly seen that his purity was such that he had the desire, but he didn't actually have that conviction. So by offering it would go away. That is also a way of doing it. Because sometimes by offering it will go away.
You ever heard of the way how Sivananda became a brahmachari? That was the arrangement of his sister-in-law.
Prabhu: Prabhupada's Sivananda? Who? What Sivananda?
HH BVPS Maharaja: I think he is in Rishikesh, one of the big..
Prabhu: Oh, the famous yogi?
HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, that one. Because he is very intelligent, you know. As a kid, when he was 16, he had attachment for a prostitute, he would always go see her. And because they need money, so then he started stealing from the house, because he was living.. I guess, the father was gone, so the older brother was then taking care, he was head of the family and was raising him, so then his older brother was married, so to his wife then he was like son. So he used to steal her ornaments. So one day she caught him and says," What is this for?" And he explained, because I guess there was a really good relationship, very close, so he just revealed that there is this prostitute, he is so attached to her, he has to give her money and this and that. And she said, "Ok, I'll give you this under one condition." He says, "What's that?" "It's that you give it to her in a special way that I'll describe to you." And he said, "Ok." She says, "You go to the prostitute's house and you tell her that you brought her a very nice gift, very nice, expensive jewelry, but in a well-lit room that she is supposed to stand there naked and she has to bend down and put her hands between her legs and you have to hand that to her." Like that. So then he agreed. And when he did that, then he could see exactly what he was... [Laughter] ..the object of his attachment. And it freaked him so badly that he just freaked and walked out of the house and went to the forest and from that time he was sannyasi. Like that. So that the sister-in-law did, she just knew that... She was trying to explain to him, "Women aren't so wonderful, why are you so attached, why you are ruining your life like this? They are not worth it. Religiously dealiing... but this is extreme, they are not worth it." But he couldn't understand, so, ok, you really wanna understand what women are, ok, do this. [Laughter]. So then he understood, it's just too much.
So sometimes that technique can work. So that also you don't know because that's not the main point, so you also don't know what are all the considerations of that brahmana. He could have understood, "If I say yes, it maybe such a.. because the person doesn't expect it, it's just out of lust he says, he asks." But as soon as you agree, like that.. Just if we are into these wild out-of the-ordinary stories, the story I 've heard that there was at the time of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. One of the sannyasis had gotten distracted by sexual attraction. But he was a main preacher. And it was brought up to Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. And he said, "Just get him a prostitute, let him do his business and then go out there and preach, why he should stop his preaching?" So when the devotee heard that, then it just shocked him and woke him up and then he gave up all interest in this way.
Prabhu: It also worked with Bilvamangala Thakura, because he became so changed that he poked out his eyes.
HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, yeah. So that's the point, is that there is also that element is that they know what they are doing. It didn't say what the qualification of the other brahmana was, how expert he was, or the wife, you know.
Or you have that Alvar, I don't remember which. He was living in a hut in the outskirts of the town in a garden. Well, he was living in this garden and he had written so many prayers and he was famous. And he was so detached, not interested at all in sense gratification that he was out picking flowers in his garden, and because he had such a nice garden, then this most famous woman in the town.. what was it, Sri Rangam? ..of all the prostitutes, then she used to come and sit in his garden, because it was such a nice garden, just sit and peacefully away from the hubbub all these crazy suitors and all this kind-of things. So then she is there, and he is out picking flowers, and he is picking, and she is sitting right there in the bushes of flowers. And he is going, "This is a nice flower, this is this flower, this is that flower." And he gets to her face and he goes, "This is not a flower." And then he just went to the next, "This is a flower.." Like this. [Laugther] And she went, "What do you mean this is not a flower? This is the best flower in the town, kid." [Laughter] Like that. So she thought, "Ok, I'll get this guy, we'll see who is not interested."
Prabhu: In 3 days.
HH BVPS Maharaja: Yeah, in 3 days. So she went one day, it was raining, heavy raining. So she went out dressed in a thin, scanty piece of cloth, most likely white, that's always the popular one, and it's raining outside, and she sat in the garden and she was singing his songs. So he looked, who is singing the songs out there in the rain? So he sees this girl drenched, sitting in the rain, he called in, "Come, come, sit in the veranda." All this. So then she came and sat there and that, and he is not attracted. And then she started dealing, "What are you doing? Oh, your songs are so nice, I just want to be around and be close and render some service." But while she is doing this, she is doing all the movements and mudras and everything for attraction, she knows what to do, like that. So this went on for three days, and then at the end of three days then as soon as she understood that he had come down to ground level and become attracted by her, then she immediately said, "I have to go." Like that. So as soon as that, then he said, "Oh, who are you, how can I find you?" She said what her name is and where he can find her. I think that was the point "In three days I'll have you calling my name."
So then she went back to her place and these kind of prostitutes live in big forts with guards and this and that. Nobody gets in unless they look stinking rich. So then he goes there, poor, wretched brahmana, like this and that, and whatever, and goes in and, "Oh, I'd like to see this girl." And they are like... just thrashed him out on the street. So he was so much in anxiety and was going back and forth and walking and just calling her name. So then I don't know how much time went by, but very shortly after that then a messenger from the prostitute was sent and said that she would like to see you. Oh, he was so happy, he went and all that and so then he was escorted in. So then when he met her, he says, "You called for me?" So she says, "Yes, you know, you brought such a nice gift." He says, "Gift, what gift?" And she explained that this.. I think it was a solid gold waterpot, big waterpot, not a small one, but big waterpot, heavy waterpot. And then he was like, "Who? What is that? Waterpot? Gold?" And then she said, "Yes, yes, this man came and brought it and said that you sent it, this is a gift to her and that she should now spend time with him, she shouldn't neglect him because it seems that he is poor." So he says, "Who is this guy, what does he look like?" And she explained everything. And then he said, "Can I see the pot?" And then he saw the pot, and then everything clicked. The pot was the pot he used every day to bathe the Deity, and the person who delivered the pot was the Deity. So then that created the shock, he just immediately walked out and that was it, never thought of... So sometimes that kind of technique is used.
So that's the whole point, bhakti is the main thing, the morality is there to keep you focused on the right direction, that's the real purpose of all the rules and regulations. It's not something else.
(From Lectures on Manu Samhita, 15-23 January 2004, Bhaktivedanta Academy, Sri Mayapur Dhama)
(by courtesy of Madhavi Lata Devi Dasi)
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